Devdutt Pattanaik: Either you redefine and be reborn or allow yourself to gracefully die

Could you please describe the brand, ‘Devdutt Pattanaik’?
– ‘He who explains this simply’

[pb_blockquote component_description=”Blockquote”]I did not want to pursue clinical medicine. Therefore I became a medical communicator for the pharma industry[/pb_blockquote]

1. Could you please highlight on your journey from Devdutt to ‘The Devdutt Pattanaik’?
I was a medical student but I did not want to pursue clinical medicine. Therefore I became a medical communicator for the pharma industry. I did this for 14 years. I was also a general freelancer and illustrator in my free time, focussing on culture, because a lot of magazines wanted such articles and illustrations. Which is when one of the editors, Randeep Khare, recognized my love for culture and told me to pursue it. I did not use the word mythology then. He was so impressed by my knowledge of mythology that he encouraged me to write more on it. It was he who introduced me to my first publisher who asked me to write a book on Shiva.

I had never thought of writing a book on Shiva. I put down a table of contents and wrote the book very fast to the surprise of my publisher. The language was a little staccato. On hindsight, I realised that it was due to my science background. I had analysed and put Shiva together in a way a science student would approach any subject. It was my first book, Shiva: An Introduction in 1996. Although the book did not do well, the publisher liked the book. Which lead to my second book on Vishnu and my third book on Devi.

By the time I finished my third book I realised the whole world of Hindu Mythology had opened itself to me through writing these books. I started thinking more deeply on mythology and started reading more and more academic books on the subject. It became a passion, on the side, while I was working as a freelance medical communicator to pharmaceutical companies, including Johnsons and Johnsons, Phizer, Glaxo.

The books were not doing that well but I was enjoying writing because the publisher was interested in publishing them. Then Penguin approached me and asked me if I would write for them.

Writing was something I did as a parallel stream, I never thought it would become such a big thing. I spent my weekdays working in the pharma industry as a freelance writer and in my free time, I would write on mythology.

A major transformation took place when I joined the company known as Aventis which is now called Sanofi, somewhere in early 2000. My writing continued side by side. It was during this time one of my journalist friends overhead me connect mythology with management and asked me if I would write a column. That became the column in the Corporate Dossier of the Economic Times which went on to be published for eight years, which lead to the book Business Sutra.

In 2007, I moved from the pharma industry to Ernst and Young as a Business Consultant to the pharma world.

Shortly thereafter, I joined Kishore Biyani. That was a major break, in my life which I would call transformatory. Kishore Biyani offered me a post in the Future Group, as part of the think tank, and gave me the clever designation of Chief Belief Officer that I had suggested. That was a tipping point in 2008 followed by the Ted Talk and the Business Sutra Show with CNBC TV 18.

[pb_blockquote component_description=”Blockquote”]Joining Kishore Biyani, was a major break, in my life which I would call transformatory[/pb_blockquote]

These three things made me a popular figure in many circles. I left Future Group, five years later, and joined Reliance as a culture consultant, a relationship which went on for five years.

Meanwhile, more and more people recognized my ability to write on pure mythology as well as applied mythology in the corporate world with culture and governance. I became part of the lecture circuit. Giving lectures at corporate events.

That is when I met Mahesh Samat of Epic TV and he asked me to do the Devlok Show. The show was done in Hindi and it exposed me to the Hindi market and I suddenly became a household name. People who would have never read my books became familiar with me. This lead me to the Radio Mirchi show, which again lead me to a very different audience.

There were a series of accidents that enabled me to transform from a part time mythologist to a full-time mythologist to a public figure. It just happened due to a series of wonderful coincidences.

2. What are your thoughts on leadership?
Leadership is about paying attention to the other, and enabling people not to mimic or pretend, but to be genuine/authentic about their fears. This means creating an ecosystem where people can be vulnerable and thus feel secure and empowered, for example, to express uncomfortable views without fear of censure. Mimicry and pretension means we are hiding. We are not being true. If a leader cannot sense fear in people around him, if a leader feels good when people around him are frightened into pretending, there is a problem. Power flows towards the leader or, rather, the boss rather than towards the organization.

[pb_blockquote component_description=”Blockquote”]Leadership is about paying attention to the other, and enabling people not to mimic or pretend, but to be genuine/authentic about their fears[/pb_blockquote]

3. Is there something called a ‘good leader’ and the ‘bad leader’? If yes, what is the difference? If No, What is your perspective on these terminologies?
Good or bad, all leaders are essentially mythological kings. But some follow rules and some break rules. The question is why? Ram and Krishna act for the benefit of others, the larger group. Ravan and Duryodhan are more interested in their glory even if their respective kingdoms are destroyed. The journey towards leadership is a journey from ‘me’ to ‘we’.

[pb_blockquote component_description=”Blockquote”]The journey towards leadership is a journey from ‘me’ to ‘we’ [/pb_blockquote]

4. What is the difference between leaders of the present and the past?
I am very wary about talking about real people because we do not really have adequate data about past leaders. What we have with us is the propaganda of the past leaders. For example we really don’t know who King Ashoka was, based on the edicts, because these were like the advertisements put out by our politicians today. We do not really have a counter argument to it. Every literature we have on Ashoka is done by those he patronized and those who did not like him or hated him. So we have the Jain chronicles that say negative things about him and Buddhist chronicles that say positive things about him. His own edicts say he was a noble soul – but was he really that? To know of him, we have to read between the lines, as well.Even current leaders are very good Public Relations Officers who ensure that they have a particular image in the public. So I refrain from commenting on this.What we have to ask ourselves is if we are good leaders and by that, I mean, do we genuinely think about other people or are other people an afterthought after out individual success?I think the hallmark of a great leader is the spirit of generosity – both in the case of material wealth and opportunities.

[pb_blockquote component_description=”Blockquote”]The hallmark of a great leader is the spirit of generosity – both in the case of material wealth and opportunities[/pb_blockquote]

5. What is your message to the youngsters who will be the future leaders?
My message to youngsters is to remember that most business decisions taken by business leaders are not logical. Many decisions are taken to feel special. Many don’t realise how perks and rules can disempower people around them, de-motivate them, yet how rules are necessary to create stability and predictability. Failure to understand the underlying emotional strains results in leaders taking many bad decisions.

6. What is branding?
Branding is making a product more than what it is. Branding transforms a soap into a personality. A powerful personality. An embodiment of beliefs. More than something that is used to reduce surface tension and remove dirt. It becomes the carrier of affection, love, protection. Branding transforms a product into a symbol, a representation of something else. And so when people pick it up from a shelf, they submit to its magic and buy the myth. The sage Narad once put Krishna on one pan of the weighing scale, and asked the wives of Krishna to place something heavier (more valuable) on the other side. Satyabhama put gold ornaments; it was not heavy enough. Rukmini put a tulsi leaf; it was heavier than Krishna. The tulsi leaf was a code for Rukmini’s love for Krishna. Thus the thought (love for Krishna) granted the thing (tulsi leaf) an intangible value. It transformed the commodity (tulsi leaf) into a brand (symbol of love for Krishna) and its value increased exponentially. But the value is known only to those who are familiar with the codes. To make people familiar with these codes is marketing.

[pb_blockquote component_description=”Blockquote”]Branding transforms a product into a symbol, a representation of something else[/pb_blockquote]

7. How the brand is different from just a business? And what is the difference between leading the brand and leading the business?
As I mentioned previously, the brand is about personality and business is about the financial aspect of the personality. You can sell a commodity or you can sell an idea. A business can sell both a commodity or an idea.When it is selling an idea, a concept, a thought, a feeling, the approach is very different. When you are leading with the brand you are leading a concept, it is a conceptual approach. When you are leading a business you are really more focused on the balance sheet. To me, the measure of a good brand is where the marketing costs are very low and the sales are very high because you don’t have to push the brand. You have to push a commodity, but you don’t need to push a brand. A brand sells itself through word of mouth and through the loyalty of its consumers. For example, when you use the word Tata, there is a sense of trust associated with it. I don’t have to sell the trust, therefore the cost of selling the trust is low. But if I introduce a new brand like Rara or Papa which nobody knows, I have to invest a lot of money to generate trust as compared to a brand like Tata. So the cost of marketing for a Tata is very low because the brand has been built over the years. We can calculate the cost as it being part of the time. It’s the same thing with Apple or Samsung. Over time, they have associated themselves with being innovative and one accepts that they will be coming with better and better products over the coming years. The cost of marketing is very low and the quality of the brand is very good.

[pb_blockquote component_description=”Blockquote”]The measure of a good brand is where the marketing costs are very low and the sales are very high[/pb_blockquote]

8. What is your message to the upcoming brands?
We must consider time again in this case. I think brands must give themselves an expiry date. That creates a sense of it becoming an organism. The knowledge that one day you will die, one day you will be irrelevant. Either you redefine and be reborn or allow yourself to gracefully die.

[pb_blockquote component_description=”Blockquote”]Either you redefine and be reborn or allow yourself to gracefully die[/pb_blockquote]